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October 17, 2006


Frank Emanuel

Good on you Shane! I know the joys of being brought up on heresy charges by well-meaning folks - the charge was refusing to hammer people with dogma and instead helping people learn how to think for themselves. Apparently that is a liberal thing to do. The fact that I study at a pontifical university and am obviously tainted by my 'traffic' with the Romans hasn't helped. I am glad to report that while the accusations were taken seriously by my denomination it became quickly apparent to them that the accuser held views considerably narrower than our movement (Vineyard).

Joshua Ballard

I know that I have been commanded to 'repent and be ye saved' on blog comments before. But that is what I get for engaging with vocal fundamentalists, theonomists, kinists and all the rest of the "-ists" (well, the bad ones anyway)

I've even been in the middle of a 3 party argument on certain aspects of covenant theology, when "they" asked what denomination my church was from...when I mentioned AoG, one of the people who was originally supporting my argument "formally withdrew and seperated" himself from me.

I'd never been dumped on a blog like that before.


The motto I have tried to live by in relation to other Christians has always been:
In essentials - unity. In non essentials - liberty. In ALL things - charity.
I am continually saddened by the often bitter remarks that proceed from the mouths of narrow-minded people.
As an ecumenist at heart, I am deeply troubled by the attitudes of people as represented above.
We spend so much time focusing on the small details that divide, instead of the amazing unity that is available to us in Christ by the Spirit.
In my reading of Ephesians, it seems that the unity of the Church, in Jew and Gentile forming ONE body of Christ, is the demonstration of 'the manifold wisdom of God' to the 'rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.'
What a mockery we make of this 'manifold wisdom of God' when we decide that our own judgements are worth more to us than the demonstration of God's mighty power in bringing about a super-natural unity of love formerly unavailable in this world but now made available to us through the Spirit being poured out on all flesh.
In the words of William Wallace (or at least Mel Gibson pretending to be William Wallace), we must "unite the clans."
It doesn't take much to see that the enemy's tactic has always been 'divide and conquer.'
Let us, therefore, 'unite the clans' and see the manifold wisdom of God make mockery of the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places, instead of the other way around.
Oh, and Shane, I think we need to organise a special medal cermony for you now that you have officially arrived as a heretic. (We have known it for a while now, but it's good that you're getting this formal recognition!)
: )

David McAuley

Shane, there's not a lot to add to your comments other than keep up the great work. I know if I return home (N. Ireland) with some of the teaching of SCC and AOG I will probably be deported back here but hey who cares! (Of course, that if Hillsong don't deport me first!)

Chris Tilling

Screaming heretics ought to be diced with a hole puncher then fed to hungry worms.

Grace and blessings,
(Grace Ministries International)

Chris Tilling

BTW, thanks for the 'brilliant' and a stony cold glare (yet filled with forgiveness) for the 'irreverent' bit.

Liz Langton

It seems to me as though there are many Christians who unfortunately do not see value in learning from and understanding other denominations. Aside from the notion that we should have unity as the body of Christ (which i fullly agree with and support)people appear to prefer to be ignorant of other's beliefs and viewpoints rather then hear them spoken. A diverse approach and understanding to Christianity is a healthy one-keep it coming!

John Alchin


Good work. It is time for our churches to lose the trappings of fundamentalism. We have a wonderful gift to contribute to the wider body of Christ that needs to be set free from the ill-fitting suit of fundamentalist rhetoric. I am encouraged to see these changes brewing through the works of Amos Yong, Simon Chan, Miroslav Volf (we'll take the credit for his pentecostal upbringing) for instance and through the contributions of many who post on this site.

Shane Clifton

Thanks all for your comments - and John, I also applaude the work of those three theologians - as well as the parallell writings of Frank Macchia.

Best wishes, Shane

Ian Collins

Some people say they want Christ, and that He is there Christ and yet when it come to the rubber to the road something that my Christ stands for love and in that unity - of all people to Christ desite.... well anything...

It greave me - How can we say that we love Christ and yet apose his very teaching in the detail - Even on things that the Bible dose speak clearly on !!! Seems some people need to work on their heart and let it become more like Christs and dispose of our small mindedness and personal bias.

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