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June 24, 2006


Joshua Ballard

I actually laughed out loud when reading the last line of the article. I can imagine Mark syaing that complete with Vanilla Ice dance moves and hand gestures, possibly unknowingly offending members of the deaf community with said gestures.

I largely agree with Mark's conclusion, in that "Integrous-ness" has become the generally all-important marker for involvement within, at the very least, Pentecostal Youth groups. Living the techne concept of integrity that Mark illuminated is something that well-trained Pentecostal youth are quite capable of displaying in certain environments. Especially when it is concocted with an externally (usually "Victorian") defined version of what that "good" should be.

Take an "integrous" young person out of the pentecostal community and you can watch them become "integrous" with the secular community within the space of a couple of hours. This seems to be demonstrative that our holiness is not being defined according to a real standard of holiness, but a skill in integrating into the community one finds themselves in. If the community is "holy" then the individual will be "holy". But not for the sake of "holiness" but for the sake of integration.

As Mark wrote..."follower-training" is being demonstrated when these things happen, and not a recognition of individual responsibility which is required in the fulfillment of a missional movement.

Word to ya mother.

Deborah Taggart

Whoah Mark - that was brilliant....I can't think of anything to add or tweak but to say 'well said' :)

oh, and a random cheeky thought....when will our regular readers and commenters become 'sons and daughters of the blog'? :P

Craig Bennett

G"day Mark.

In light of the church culture today, and most pastors wanting / aspiring to be the pastor of a megachurch - or to grow their church to be one as a sign of successful ministry (not that there is anything inherently wrong with a large church)Do you think that there has been a paradim shift within Pentecostalism about what success is, and that success is the new form / fruit of "Holiness"

Also as a Pentecostal Christian, fellowshipping outside the Pentecostal movement, looking in from the outside, it seems there is a form of Pentecostal sub-culture that makes it standard to joke about mega-churches / leaders / success / other demominations etc that in of its self is not showing integrity or a level of holiness and so it could be a larger problem within the entire church and not just the larger ones?

Tanya Riches

Agreed with Deb - what a great read Mark ;-)! we may not like to hear these things said, but to pull down the rhetoric and look at what we are saying means is revealing - we don't always end up doing the right thing in our defense against the media onslaught, or in motivating people to do what we want them to do - although, how would we build the church otherwise, right pastors! So much vision, not enough time, money or support.

I would love to read M's follow up on language creating the belonging we are all searching for - & the something in the content itself we may find difficult to express, but that is different from 'out in the world' - for example, the familiar sense of God's nearness in worship, the 'awesome' encouragement we get from knowing each other, the 'challenges' to give more both financially and sacrificially as our western world moves more towards consumerism and individualism at the expense of others, the hope an alternative community centred on Christ can bring.

hehe as we head toward the biggest conference of the Christian year, may we all become moral, ethical and LESS integrous! (I swear this article was aimed at me, I must have used that word three times in the last week, unaware it wasn't legit!!!)

Tanya Riches

PS Mark if this goes to your email, I am serious about wanting to read the follow up - only because you've already brought my attention to the value of these things, and these churches are successfully redefining language - so there must be something to say! It's started me thinking... :-)

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